Hard to believe that some people are made in God's image!

randy225 · #1 03-02-2006

I am a Deputy Sheriff in our County's Courthouse. We are present in the courtrooms with all our inmates from the county jail, so we hear all about the cases.
I sat in on a jury trial a few months ago on this guy who was accused of choking out an 18 year old girl, then raping her. All this happened in a large hotel. To add insult to injury, he then robbed her, as well.
This was the second rape case that was charged against him that I am aware of. The M.O. is the same in both cases. He was convicted in this case by a jury. This was his sixth felony conviction, and most of those are crimes of violence. He is a manipulator, and is assaultive. He is dangerous in every sense of the word, and I wonder how many people he has murdered.
During the past few months, he has been involved in numerous fights in the jail. He likes to beat up those who are weaker than he is. He is a predator in every sense of the word, and his criminal history is longer than you can imagine. He was sentenced to 50 years to life today for the one rape. He still has to go to trial on the other rape that happened in another county.
During sentencing, he, like many inmates, talked about how he has found God while incarcerated, and wanted the chance to turn his life around on the outside. I was horrified that such a person could even claim to know who God is, let alone claim to be a christian! When I had some time to reflect on it, however, I realized that it is not for me to judge this man's heart. It scares me to think that someone like him could make it into heaven. Even if he had a total turnaround, and lived the rest of his life for God, I don't know that I would ever trust him to come into my church. I know this is wrong of me to think like this, and I know that NO ONE is beyond salvation, but this situation really has me struggling to come to grips with the fact that even he could be saved........

**sharky67** · #2 03-03-2006

And then there's Jeffrey Dahmer....

Is God's grace reserved for a few?

**warrior** · #3 03-03-2006

Who then can be saved?With God nothing is impossible.God's grace reaches all -no one is excluded.All are welcome to receive the salvation offered,some will,many will harden their hearts.Jonah wondered too why God would save Ninevah!But he did!

topshot · #4 03-03-2006

I wonder how shocked people would be if Hitler had accepted truly Christ before he died. 8O

As the saying goes, "we'll be surprised by who IS and who ISN'T there."

**sharky67** · #5 03-03-2006

Look at who God used in the Bible in might ways - Moses was a murderer, David was a murderer and adulterer, Paul was (in his own words) the greatest of sinners, etc. Any others you can think of off the top of your head? This is turning into an interesting thread.

randy225 · #6 03-03-2006

The Apostle Paul had been a fervent persecutor of Christians, if I remember correctly, and was converted and did great things for the Kingdom.

I did not know that Moses was a murderer. I'll have to read that!

There is hope for all, but as a human, sometimes I just don't understand God's reasons!

So the next thing that causes me issues is that God loves this guy just as much as He loves me. My arrogance and pride are my stumbling blocks on this one!

topshot · #7 03-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by randy225

I did not know that Moses was a murderer. I'll have to read that!

See Ex 2:11-14

Quote:

My arrogance and pride are my stumbling blocks on this one!

Those issues are problem for many of us! See Matt 20:1-16

RevEd · #8 03-03-2006

I don't have a problem with guys like the criminal you're describing professing a repentant heart and a conversion to Christ.

However, even though his sins are forgiven by the blood of Christ, the consequences of his sin still remain. His debt to God is paid by Christ. But his debt to society will still have to be paid.

This does not mean that he isn't forgiven or saved, far from it.

And while I would agree with you that I also would feel uncomfortable with him in my church, I would say that my church would have to reach out to him. He will have to remain in prison to pay his debt to society. But the church will then have to visit him, pray for him, bring him the Gospel through Word and Sacrament.

Rev

**sharky67** · #9 03-03-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by RevEd

And while I would agree with you that I also would feel uncomfortable with him in my church,

Rev

Really? We have someone in our church who served time for murder in his late teens. But God has saved him and he now loves the Lord and is a real blessing to many around him. God can work wonders in people's lives.

RevEd · #10 03-03-2006

Yes, really. But only in the sense that he has a debt to pay to society.

Listen, I'm not saying the original person we're talking about isn't saved nor am I implying that his confession of faith is false. I'm only saying that consequences and forgiveness are not necessarily connected.

I don't think I'm stating that clearly. What I have in mind is David's sin concerning his adultary with Bathsheba and the murder of Uriah. The baby that was concieved and born died after 7 days. Even though David was forgiven by God, the consequence of his sin still was carried out.

Does that make sense?

Rev